Forum: UndergroundHipHop.com Hip Hop Discussion Board
Topic: Canibus Vs Ras Kass Lyrically?

AuthorTopic posted on: Thursday, March 24, 2011 1:00:25 AM
Total Posts: 211
seems like most like canibus better but i think raskass rips canibus everytime the rhyme together and i just think ras is better....... and lyrically pharoahes better than canibus as well... and a few others....
Total Posts: 211
well the only track i know they did together was hell and i think they were toe to toe pharoahe was a lil more creative i thought and the verse he spit on canibus's second album was probably the best verse on the whole album....
Total Posts: 2179
As far as lyrical depth goes, I think Canibus is better than Ras. As far as style goes, Ras out-styles Bis on some tracks (if that's a word) when they collaborate together. Overall, I think they're around the same level though...giving Canibus the slight edge.

Canibus and Pharoahe Monch are around the same level too. Monch has said before that Bis is one of the illest alive. I don't think that either one of them trumped the other on "Hell"...they were both dope...the styles were just completely different. Take Monch's best 20 songs lyrically and Canibus' 20 best lyrically, and they're around the same level.

As for Royce Da 5'9, he's a bit of a hypocrite. He's mad at Canibus for the Premier thing, but he's just mad based off of the fact that he heard that Bis dissed Premier somewhere. He never actually heard what Bis said, because if he did, he would realize that saying "Come on dog that wasn't a good look at all" on a track is not a diss. It's something that OOBE pushed on the internet as a diss, and the media ran with it. Bis actually talked about how much love & respect he has for Premier. And Premier said that he wanted to work with Bis again. So why is Royce mad lol?

Is he still mad about the Eminem thing? If he is, he's a hypocrite, because he was beefing for YEARS with Em before they squashed it. Instead of letting them handle it like men, or trying to be a peacekeeper and helping them to squash it, he instigates more shit. He said something about Bis not having any respect...this is coming from the same guy who says sly shit and instigates shit all the time. The guy is talented, but he's kind of ridiculous.

Sorry if I went off topic a bit lol.
Yoda Iverson
Total Posts: 11803
cosign jpoe
the weatherman
Total Posts: 21726
soul on ice (lyrically) > canibus' entire career

and it's not even close

also, lol at twitter beef....stupidest shit i've ever heard of. isn't slaughterhouse supposed to be on the horsemen album? haha
Total Posts: 510
^^ very true. Soul on ice is lyrically better than most rappers careers.
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at Weatherman I disagree man. Lyrically, "Poet Laureate II" by Canibus is on a higher Level than anything Ras Kass has done (IMHO)...and I like Ras a lot. Canibus has a ton of really dope songs in his catalog that are largely over-looked and under-appreciated, such as:

1. “Buckingham Palace”
2. “Channel Zero”
3. “100 Bars”
4. “Curriculum 101”
5. “Master Thesis”
6. “Liberal Arts” ft. Jedi Mind Tricks
7. “Levitibus”
8. “No Return”
9. “Spartibus”
10. “Indibisible”
11. “Poet Laureate II”
12. “Layered Prayers”
13. “Harbinger of Light”
14. “Only Slaves D.R.E.A.M.”
15. “Merchant of Metaphors”
16. “Lunar Deluge”
17. “Pine Cone Poem”
18. “Good Equals Evil”
19. “Golden Terra of Rap”
20. "Cingularity Point" (Original 9 min version
21. "Father Author, Poop Pauper"
22. "Lost at C"
23. "Kriminal Kindness"
24. "Worthlessness Purpose" (Original Thorotracks Version)
25. "Fraternity of the Impoverished"
etc. Etc.

If you look at a song like "Channel Zero", (even if you think his conspiracy theories are crazy), and you just look at it like "Science-Fiction/Fantasy Rap", lyrically it's brilliant. Soul on Ice is a classic...but saying that it's better than Canibus' whole career when he has songs like the ones that I listed above it it? That's pretty ridiculous.

But I agree the Twitter Beef is ridiculous...it's not much of a Twitter Beef though. Canibus' only response to Royce was "I never did you dirty at any point 5'9". IMHO Royce is trippin...
the weatherman
Total Posts: 21726
Soul on Ice is a classic...but saying that it's better than Canibus' whole career when he has songs like the ones that I listed above it it? That's pretty ridiculous.

to me, an entire classic album (that's classic because of the lyrics) is worth way more than a bunch of jumbled tracks....most of the ones you listed are really boring, imo anyways.

i liked rip the jacker....that's about it from bis. can't stand his newer stuff....most of his stuff now just seems like he's babbling about random crap and not really constructing bars/words in a meaningful way. i know you and blinky are crazy about bis and think he's one of the greatest ever and whatnot....

but dude just reminds me of holocaust with a better flow.
Total Posts: 2179
at Weatherman I suppose it's just a matter of opinion/different tastes, but as far as this section:

"...Most of his stuff now just seems like he's babbling about random crap and not really constructing bars/words in a meaningful way..."

I'll have to disagree with that too. Just look at sections of the lyrics from these songs:

"Lunar Deluge":
"...Now take a deep breath and try to get with the flow now, this is it,
Back to the beginning when the Milky Way first started spinning
Sound was the only thing living
The Universe was singing, signals were pinging
Life began to emerge from one light blinking
The sound stabilized it
The color spectrum was immediately divided by levels of brightness
The speed of the spin began rising
Gravity was created and forever affected by this
And thus, the elements were created in a cradle
Smashing against one another like balls on a pool table
We like to label so we give things names
I shook your hand and told you mine was Germaine..."

Good Equals Evil
"I look towards the sky for the answers to why
I analyze the great divide and saw God on both sides
God didn't do this, we did this to each other
So keep his name out your mouth, you fucking cock suckers
How could you own all of it, when we are all apart of this?
The Earth belongs to every living thing that walks upon it
We are all perfect creations, with imperfect justifications
But just the patient fuck the subject of Satan
The Universe is too huge, does Satan live out their too?
Or is he just after me and you?
Believe what you perceive
Look at the Sun, tell what do you see? 360 degrees of light beams
Illuminating Hip Hop, Spitboss'll battle your pops...
You ain't ready for the shit that I got"

"Only Slaves D.R.E.A.M."
Do you think that the powers that be are goin' to let you do what you want to do for eternity?
Of course you don't, so what do you fear? Why you spazzin' out, why you so scared? Everybody wanna be first, nobody wants to be last...
Do you think a God that created this would watch all of us die while others just laugh?What happens when the money system crash? And there's no more value in the cash?
You gon' suck dick and sell ass?
You gon' try to fight back wit' ya hands? You probably gon' change your money into gold
You gon' use that to try and buy soul
Buy some drugs with it, buy a peice of hole Don't tell me, I don't wanna know
You need to come up with a better plan
The Devil smash metal weapons like glass Right now we out-matched and out-classed
We have to stay on a spiritual path
'Cause in the absence of love, we blastin' one another with blood Media shows up to capture the buzz..."

All of those are recent, and to me, that's coherent thought. Some of the stuff is just random rap bragging (albeit in a more creative way)...but that's no different than most MC's. He's got PLENTY of good, thoughtful content in his catalog.
Total Posts: 3531
Canibus Vs Rass Kass Sexually?

Ras Kass all day, every day.
Total Posts: 9709
j blinky the fact that you even keep up on things such as twitter beef between 2 half washed up mc's only adds to the legendary faggotry which you display here.
vinnny blanc
Total Posts: 6008
^couldnt hav said it betta
Total Posts: 8201
Ras Kass >>>>>> Canibus ...flow, lyrics, voice, beat selection
Total Posts: 10
lyrically, no one sees canibus

Ben Goodman
Total Posts: 1487
Its Rass. Canibus still got lyrics but his delivery is played the fuck out. Its true what you said Jacked. Rass Kass beats are better than Canibus and Rass Kass tracks are shit. At least Rass got some Primo, Alchemist, and Diamond D in the mix.
Total Posts: 5699
rass kass is good but he cant make a good album to save his life..soul on ice was his only good shit...canibus is corn ball so i could care less about him...
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Post the verse where Canibis talks about eating a mans asshole.
Ben Goodman
Total Posts: 1487
Ha ha Dick Wolf!! That was before the no homo craze and even when he said that back then people were like "What the..?"
Total Posts: 1643
bis shits on ras 90% of the time
Total Posts: 211
^ come on now have you heard "horsemen talk" ras kass completly murders him
Total Posts: 55167
i wonder who could smoke more pot in one sitting
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lol at orien
Moose is Loose
Total Posts: 3825
at CulturesClothing

"Is he still mad about the Eminem thing? If he is, he's a hypocrite, because he was beefing for YEARS with Em before they squashed it"

Actually Em signed slaughter house to his label. Does that answer your question?

Btw Royce is just trying to get brownie point with Primo that all. Trying to start beef with Bis on tweeter lol. Make a video dude and diss his ass Royce if you so mad or punch him in the face... I said IN THE FACE! like I would but I am hardcore unlike these other rappers who rap about back packs and alarm clocks that dont work.
Total Posts: 1642
canibus easily...canibus is 1 of 2 emcees to ever make me press rewind (the other bieng vakill)...i think soul on ice is highly overrated imo. it was cool but not a classic and that was rass kass best album...i think a better comparison would be rass kass vs vakill since they have similar styles(and vakill would take that)..
succio bsbd
Total Posts: 1848
are you fucking kidding me...

Soul on Ice is better than canibus' catalog combined. Nothing will ever touch that album lyrically.

Ras > vakill > canibus

Canibus is so 1-dimensional.
Total Posts: 1642
rass kass is hella boring to me. He has skill but lyricaly homie aint all that. only song from soul on ice that impressed me was nature of the threat. How can you say with a str8 face that rass kass is nicer than a young canibus. Hell he aint better than present canibus. Bar 4 bar ill put 2000 bc over soul on ice
succio bsbd
Total Posts: 1848
lol at the irony of calling ras boring over canibus. Canibus is so fucking boring he spits about nothing...blah blah blah science aurora beam blah blah blah

and im not surprised your fav song is nature of the threat from SOI

Ras is a much more versatile and complete MC...2000 BC is complete asscheeks. Rip the jacker is his only good project and thats only because Stoupe made the album tolerable to listen to
Total Posts: 211
canibus=science nerd
ras kass=intelligent gangsta
succio bsbd
Total Posts: 1848
speaking of soul on ice,

theres a copy on amazon for $19
Rev ain't Wright
Total Posts: 8560
I'm just a bigger fan of Ras Kass in general
- last bref -
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i was kind of a canibus fan when he first came out killing the mixtapes and guest appearances... it wasn't until i heard his debut lp that it dawned on me, "wait a minute...this dude can't make a song to save his life"...even on "i honor u" which was supposed to be a song dedicated to his mom, he was rhyming about sperm cells and the lyrics failed to evoke any feeling. after that, i still thought he was lyrically ill but i had to lower my expectations. nowadays i try to give his new stuff a shot and it's the same, except his voice and flow are WAY less appealing now.

ras kass was a flawless mc (if there ever was such a thing) on soul on ice.

here's my fav track with both of them, back when both were at their respective peaks...

rass kass, canibus, heltah skeltah - "uni-4-orm"
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^ras was better on that song too
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ppl always talk about canibus` production but rass kass beat selection is equaly terrible. SOI production was garbage(note i said BAR 4 BAR between 2000 bc & SOI which has nothing to do with beats)...and im dying at cats calling rass kass a gangsta. Same dude that got knocked out by the game smh...and i have no words for ne1 who thinks rass kass has ever been a flawless emcee cause that claim is so outlandish its not even funny..
Total Posts: 1184
Speakin LYRICALLY, canibus is easily on top

But STYLISTICALLY, it goes pharoahe>ras>canibus

also, i always hear shit about SOI but no one ever mentions his other shit....am i the only one who's really feeling adidas? Not lyrically superior, relative to other albums....but that shit is fresh. Hmm.
Total Posts: 1184
Total Posts: 2179
Well, we have the HRSMN project coming up this summer, so we'll see who outdoes the other on that. I still think that Canibus > Ras Kass lyrically, but Ras > Canibus as far as style/flow/delivery. My prediction is that on the HRSMN album, they'll both have songs where one is outshining the other...that's why I just put them on the same level.
Total Posts: 20
I've always liked both, but more and more I am having a hard time defending canibus when most of his songs are just completely random strings of astronomy, physics, and philosophy that don't actually make sense if you know anything about astronomy, physics, or philosophy.

Canibus is very skilled at what he does, but more and more I am growing tired of what it is he does.
the real dick fitswell
Total Posts: 12110
Ras all day...
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at TheTXI I know astronomy, physics, and philosophy, and I don't think it's random at all and I think at lot of it makes plenty of sense. Some of his philosophies are just personal philosophies...you can disagree with philosophies, but you can't necessarily say that one is wrong (just using "Good Equals Evil" as an example.

As far as Physics go, I think that he often says that he does things that are impossible physically...but I'm pretty sure that's the point. He's saying that he does the impossible. Like when he says "His DNA was shaped like a series of sideways 8's...space-time is converted to time-space". If you really think about that from a physics standpoint, that's ill...

And as far as his stuff being just random strings of astronomy, physics, and philosophy, I can think of tons of examples to contradict that. And even when he does do that, i'd rather listen to that then the same old tired gun metaphors that we hear from most of the other rappers. If you give specific examples and describe why you don't think that it makes sense, I'll explain why it does. I said this before, but stack Canibus' Top 20 against most MC's Top 20 songs, and he outshines a large majority of them. I still haven't heard anything as lyrically profound as "Poet Laureate II" was...and that came out like 8 years ago...
the weatherman
Total Posts: 21726
damn, some people are fooling themselves into thinking bis' lyrics actually have meaning and depth....dude just says random words to rhyme, that's it.

that 'lunar deluge' shit is incredibly wack....and 'poet laureate 2' while ok, is not that great....just the same tired sci-fi lines he always spits.

ras kass can make an album of cut tracks from soul on ice or the soul on ice demo that are better than canibus' entire career....jack frost, soul on ice (remix), remain anonymous, won't catch me runnin', live from c-arson, core audience, high i.q., understandable smooth....
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at Weatherman How on Earth is "Lunar Deluge" incredibly Wack? Dope Philosophical topics are touched on in that song:

"Where do we exist from...what do we exist for? We were intelligently designed to be a resource. How can there be free will...without the freedom to feel...we pursue and illusion that isn't real".

In what way is that ^^^ random lines or wack?

Could it be that you're just missing/ignoring what he's talking about? A lot of people have this knee jerk reaction where they're like "Oh he's trying to sound too smart...this sucks" but in the process, they actually miss some of the gems that he's dropping. You said that he just says random words to rhyme but I just listed three examples above that contradict that point.

Also, Poet Laureate II wasn't really sci-fi at all...like at all. That's why I think that you're not really listening. No Hate I'm just saying. Poet Laureate II was more philosophy than anything else.
the weatherman
Total Posts: 21726
from poet laureate 2:

Yo, why is the ripper so ill?
That would be a unpardonable breach of confidence for me to reveal!
He said one day all eyes would be on me
when they look up in the sky and see the neon C
Rhymes inscribed on a nickel disk encased
in glass with an ion beam for longevity
For more then 10 centuries, impressions and memories
the first time the machine inventor will mention me
Canibus was a visionary indeed
he believed light could travel in multiples of C
The organic supercomputer that solved the mysteries
of Clan Calusa with 2 blue metric rulers

just the first few lines of the song....but how the hell is any of that philosophy related? sounds more like random babbling and from the words/phrases i bolded....sci-fi shit.

it's not about understanding....dudes not some genius, he's a god damn rapper....i can't believe people actually take bis seriously....like you really ponder existence and shit listening to 'lunar deluge'? come the fuck on....i don't believe that for one second.
Ryzen from Da Ashes
Total Posts: 10
Ras Kass is more of a street smart, intelligent G. Cannibus is like a lyrical mathematician haha! Lyrically Cannibus is better in my opinion but Ras has a better overall style
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at weatherman see that's exactly what I'm saying...you're not really paying attention to what he's saying. You highlighted those words thinking that they're sci-fi, but he's basically saying:

*His brain is like a computer/his mind is complex
*One day everyone will remember him for what he's done. He's doing things that are way ahead of its time, but most people now don't understand him or appreciate his work.
*He keeps his rhymes locked away because he doesn't think that people will appreciate them, but at the end of the first verse, he decides to reveal one anyway.

Not really sci-fi, is it? That's what I'm saying. People aren't really listening to him. They hear big words, and think that he's babbling or trying to hard, but the verse is actually very coherent & structured. It's not random at all...He's just being creative with what he's saying. Besides that, the entire 1st verse is an introduction to the second, which is where I was saying that it's Philosophy and social commentary.
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"Canibus was a visionary indeed
he believed light could travel in multiples of C"

-speed of light in a vacuum is 2.99792458, and the Avogadro constant represents a fractal multiple of powers of c, the speed of light in a vacuum. Planck mass, Planck momentum and Planck energy reflect the numerical values of the seventh, eighth and ninth powers of c, a massless photon.


"organic supercomputer": his mind

"in glass with an ion beam for longevity"

Hydrogen-ion beam fractions were studied for effects of longevity on matter. "Taking the
copper sputtering coefficient S = 3.7 X 10-3 atoms/ion and a 1 cm beam radius, a beam dump lifetime of 274 days was calculated..."

These things that you bolded are based in reality. No disrespect to you homie, but just cuz u dont instantly understand it does not mean it is jibberish.
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This^^^^!!!! I wasn't even going to break it down that far...I was just explaining the basic concepts of that verse to show that it wasn't just sci-fi jibberish, but you broke it down even further...
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^ i dont even give a fuck about what he says. i cant listen to his ass for more than 2-3 tracks. some of his babbling is dope but his voice is so fucking grating who can stand to listen to that shit for more than 10-15minutes.
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^ I agree with you dog, I cant listen to him unless his songs are mixed into a playlist with other artists or something, y'know...i was just responding to dood's selective letter bolding

Stylistically,pharoahe>ras>canibus hands down

But even if he isnt a well-rounded mc, I think he deserves respect for his trademark technically self-indulgent lyricism
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This is another one of those Canibus songs that I just think puts him on a whole other level ahead of most MC's:

"Layered Prayers" by Canibus

"Yea, ayo Mother Earth absorbs the blood I bleed
Hip-Hop is my blood - I believe...
That I am not free, and neither are you
The only time I feel free is when I'm rhyming in the booth
The Lion on the loose is not a reckless recluse, but really a dictator with his neck in a noose
For war crimes; Hardcore rhymes from a warped mind, that enjoyed the dark matter in the void before time

The innocent murmured, murmured because they worshipped him
They let the serpent in but it never occurred to them
They deity regards emcees like me
Piously, check the degree, see if it's me
On planet Earth I design mankind's rebirth
A marvel of water and rock salt from a verse
The Moon, the Sun and the Stars
I am who you are, together, we all form God
I laugh at the creation of it, the explanation of it
Not the original but man's imitation of it
They took Hip-Hop and changed the subject
Then I brought Hip-Hop back and made you love it
Through deterrence, detention and prevention
Never write the wrong sentence
If I ever said it I meant it
The insatiable, inescapable regiment
What's the weight? Add four more plates, I bench it
Skinny-ass n*gga, grab your neck with a pen-grip
Bend it through telepathic suggestion
I rap so serious, the vocal myriad
Occurred intermittently over protracted periods
Rap 'til you get delirious, wack n*ggaz get furious
Keep dissin' me, your girl's gettin' curious
Darth Vader on the cross-fader releasin' the raw data
This is called hard jaw-breaker labour

When I see you I'ma battle you, then tackle you
Then grapple you, then probably snap you in two
Yo, ain't that the truth?, outside the booth
Air combat maneuvers without no computer
Space wings that cause pings MOTHAFUCKA!!!
We gon' dogfight above cloud cover
High in the friendly skies, where unfriendlies
Where frendlies and unfrendlies die
You and I race to the Sun, I just got back
The race is done, ages have ended and ages have begun
Cognisance saturation, I am the one
Tell me where chain-gun Germaine came from?
Dara-I-Suf, the river of caves
My ribcage look like miniature shim blades
When I bathe in the waters below
Still waters run deep, King Cthulhu told me so
Magna-dome under Yellowstone inside the bowels of the Earth
I'ma show you the power of the verse
'Cause man cannot establish dominance over man
Indefinitely; man only respects God's energy
Telluric energy, drawn from the bowels of the Earth
I'ma show you the power of the verse
Telluric energy, drawn from the bowels of the Earth
I'ma show you the power of the verse..."

Just absolutely nasty. I do get what people say when they say they have a hard time listening to him. His voice does get grating at times...I dunno why he doesn't use his regular speaking voice more often...it's a lot smoother...especially when he's high lol *Shrugs*...
the weatherman
Total Posts: 21726
These things that you bolded are based in reality. No disrespect to you homie, but just cuz u dont instantly understand it does not mean it is jibberish.

are you serious?

all of your breakdowns of my bolded phrases were a bunch of sci-fi mathematical nerd shit....i bolded those because they sound nerdy and stupid....and dude said the song was about philosophy.

i know a few people on this site swear by bis' every word....but damn....people act like he's saying some meaningful/impactful shit when really he's just rhyming a bunch of nerdy words together basically saying he's the best and will rip everyone on the mic....just in nerd slang. i think it's funny when people say "you just don't understand" or "you just don't get it"....ya, i do...but it's wack and i'd rather not listen to mc's whos lyrics need to be broken down into mathematical equations to understand.

he's not some philosophical visionary....just an mc.
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neither of them matter or are in the least way relevant. They both had their shot and continued to put out straight garbage. Plus for a guy like Rass Kass to talk all that anti-homo shit and then take the fucking gayest looking photos a human can take is type suspect.
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Weatherman peace, I know you got good reasons to hate on the dood. If you dont feel him, then that's that. Im not gonna convince you of anything with this keyboard

crow can you post those picz??

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^ Mr. Quo and Weather I agree with both you. As a writer/lyricist myself I give Canibus the praise he deserves for the complex twisting of lyrics that he does and the double meaning in a lot of what he says.

Aesthetically I cant stand the guy as I said before. Does that mean he is complete garbage? no, I just dont like him. To say he isnt a great lyricist is just straight bullshit. i am not nearly arrogant enough of a prick to say that because I dont like something it musnt be any good. that is just tremendous hubris which I am luckily not cursed with.

Given the option of what I would want someone to throw in the deck at any time party/chilling/etc it would go


Straight lyricism I think

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See This ^^^ I absolutely respect. Bis is definitely an acquired taste. not everybody is going to like him. But to say that the guy isn't talented is completely ridiculous. Just out of curiousity do you have any Canibus songs that you do like Orien? General Consensus is the most people at least like songs like "Buckingham Palace".
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hasn't a nice voice
succio bsbd
Total Posts: 1848
yall fuckers on crack...If we are talking about the 90s here, Ras is way better than pharaohe and bis. Dude was unreal....No one was as clever or witty as ras

how the hell is bis a better lyricist than ras?? because he can rap about physics and philosophy??? If i wanted to hear that jibberish I would go to my class lectures.
Rev ain't Wright
Total Posts: 8560

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