The most overrated producer in this game is PRIMO. He doesen't do anything that great.
Same drum tracks.
Same drum sounds.
Same boring re-triggering sample technique.
Same wack scratching.
No structure changes in the songs, just muting everything but the vocals.
No breakdowns at all, really.
This man is supposed to be a legend but he's garbage. At first I thought this was just the fans who know nothing about production jockin' because they don't know how easy and un-creative his style is, But even the fools on the producers board hella like him. What the fuck!?!
I know ya'll ain't feelin' me, but it's the truth.
I can respect that.
Lil Dadday, just for the record, I'm not offended by your comments. Actually, I'm flattered that you took the time to read my response. As far as Sirkstylus (I don't know who that is, if I do, they are under some alias that I am unfamilar with...anyways, I thank them for their comments on my production skills.
Bottom line, this isn't about a Primo debate anymore....HE'S GETTING HIS MONEY DO WHAT HE LOVES TO DO BEST. Regardless if you think he's ass, regardless if I think he's the savior of real hip hop or not....
The question remains (damn, that was the bomb transition)...
WHAT ARE YOU DOING? WHAT AM I DOING? ARE ME AND YOU EATING AS GOOD AS PRIMO AND TIMBALAND? I know for damn sure I ain't. If you are, tell 'me' how to.
No matter what you or I or anybody else on this board think about PRIMO, He 'AIN'T THINKING ABOUT US. HE'S WHERE "WE" WANT TO BE'.
NOW, let's get some rest, there's work to do in the morning.
Yo, Lil Daddy isn't the first to bring up this topic, so obviously there are others who share his opinion, however...I am NOT one of those people. I have been listening to DJ Premier since the first Gangstarr album and he has not let me down yet. He IS the most consistent producer out there and you will hear his influences in almost any hip-hop song you listen to. He IS an innovator, but the problem is that he's been doing what alot of these new cats are just starting to do since the beginning. For example, he was one of the first to use triplets in his drum patterns, which is something that a lot of producers, including myself, do now. He has also mastered the cutting up of samples and the combining of completely different samples to create ill beats. I honestly think that part of the problem now is that he is starting to work with more and more people and more of his work is being heard by other people besides the original heads that listened to Gangstarr, Jeru, KRS, etc. That's good for him because he is being successful, but I remember a time when only certain MC's had the privilage of rhyming over a Primo track...now just about anyone can get one, as long as they have the money. As a result, I think sometimes he doesn't put out his best effort when working with certain artists...prime example: "F.A.Y.B.A.N." by Screwball...that really sounds like one of Primo's throw-away beats...it doesn't change at all throughout the whole song. I'm really surprised though to see that no one has challenged Lil Daddy to name someone better...so I am...Lil Daddy, name someone who you feel has been more consistent and more creative with their production over the last decade. And please, don't name someone with only one or two songs to their name...I want you to name someone with a track record for putting out ill beats...next to Primo, I would say Pete Rock and the Ummah have consistently put out nice work, but most producers out there only make a few good tracks...it takes something special to be able to keep bringing it throughout the many fads of the industry...which, by the way, is something that Primo never sold out to. Some good examples of originality that makes me respect Primo is "Come Clean" and "D. Original" by Jeru, "The Return of the Crooklyn Dodgers," "The Illest" by Biggie, "Part of My Life" by Bumpy Knuckles, there's really too many to name, but I think you get the point. Oh yeah, by the way, not that it matters, but I've met him before and he is the most down-to-earth person in the music business that I didn't know beforehand that I've ever met.
You've proved nothing faker.
I've decided to chill out on this debate. Talk if you want, I won't reply, my point has been proved.
Exactly what I'm talking about, you're stupid shit.
As for Drum Machines being the backbone, only half son, Diggin in the crates will always be the main source of hiphop, all the early hiphop songs that defined it were just samples, so where's your idiotic point at?
And as for my friend meeting him, i posted that because i know i saw you post something that said "you're stickin up for a guy you never met" go find it, you said it.
And the other people who said he uses the same drum tracks/patterns are definitely not listening to the tracks just listening to you. Obviously they are not producers at all, and i actually backed up my statements by listening to a lot of his tracks today, i even listened to his unreleased instrumental v. 2...so the people are just agreeing but then again, who has drums that sound completely different drums every time.
And pete rock did not flip true master in premier quality. If you hear what pete rock used for it, it's really obvious...So keep your idiotic opinions, you're making yourself look even worse
---If you are actually listening to Dj Premier, how can you say he uses the same drum tracks and sounds?--
Pay attention to the thread I posted i the general section, i'm not the only one who says this.
---The man is so fucking complex it's unbelievable. And it's fucking real drums, no fake ass drum machine bullshit.---
Drum machines were the backbone of rap music in the early eighties. They helped spawn the music you love, so...uuhh...
---No one in the world can and probably never will be able to flip samples as good as Premier---
Plenty of people have flipped his style before. PETE ROCK did it perfectly for "True Master".
---And you're more than welcome to say "I never met him," because I didn't, but a friend of mine did while he was in MASS recording with Krumb Snatcha..--
Who gives a fuck about you or your friend meeting PRIMO. It doesen't mean jack to me at all. Could really care less about Krumb Snatcha, so stop name droppin. You sound like a groupie biitch backstage at a DMX concert.
---Every beat does not need to be a soundscape, only people who have nothing to do with their beats, and are unable to be rhymed over can do that.---
Another one of the many idiotic statements i've read on this site.
Enough of this shit..
If you are actually listening to Dj Premier, how can you say he uses the same drum tracks and sounds?
The man is so fucking complex it's unbelievable. And it's fucking real drums, no fake ass drum machine bullshit.
I listened to about 20 or 30 songs he produced today, and none of em have familiar sounding drums. Obviously you aint a real producer if you're gonna try and say that. And fucking Timbaland? People mastered his style because it is so simple, just sounds complex. No one in the world can and probably never will be able to flip samples as good as Premier.
If you knew where most of his shit comes from, you probably wouldn't be saying shit.
-Your Lesson for today-
Do you know how many beats the man probably makes a day? Every beat does not need to be a soundscape, only people who have nothing to do with their beats, and are unable to be rhymed over can do that. That make about 1 a week or less than that. Think about what he does with them simple minimalistic tracks, that are 100X better than any full blown soundscape beat.
And nobody has mastered his style, most of the ones you mentioned were influenced by him, as I was. He was my personal influence for getting into production, so i'm gonna stick up for him when he can't do it himself.
And you're more than welcome to say "I never met him," because I didn't, but a friend of mine did while he was in MASS recording with Krumb Snatcha..
Fucking idiotic statements, I was gonna let it slide, but i had to get on this.
THAT'S THE TRUTH...so fuck all yall statements, attempting to call him garbage
Why are you here jumpin on PRIME's dick? Didn't I already serve you?
Lil Daddy, stop fakin. Post your shit up. Prime is an excellent producer and I'd be willing to bet he would kill you when it comes to production. I think he is far from dumb. That's just a rude thing to say, but then again look at your topic.
---I mean think about it, if PRIMO is so simple in his production, then why hasn't anyone 'mastered' it? Look at Timbaland; he was so complex when he came out: Many R&B producers today are playing him like a little bitch, copied his same style and went platinum off of it. NO ONE can say that about Primo.---
Nobody has mastered TIM's style, all the biters sound secondary. Besides that, he doesen't even make beats like that anymore. That all stopped on the new MISSY album, so all biters sound played out now. As far as PRIMO style being mastered, I hear that all the time. Defari's album, all that Alchemist shit, and Pete Rock bit his shit perfectly for "TRUE MASTER". None of these producers have went platinum off of his shit cause the shit aint that popular, PRIMO can bareley get a gold plaque himself.
---Primo doesn't produce "DRUM & BASS", so don't look for any wild drum patterns and changes---
Does have to make drum and bass to change up his beats once and a while? C'mon, man.
---A producer, I feel, only needs to be complex in their production: changes, drops, fills, etc...only if the MC isn't all that.---
Are you stupid or are you dumb? That's one of the worse things i've heard in a while.
You are a complete sucker.
Lil Daddy continues to re-up his sucker status.
Lil Daddy, I know exactly what you are talking about...but let me back it up for you: IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT.
The reason you say that is beacause every album he's on: (example Nas, Rakim, Jay-Z, Biggie)...Primo is that "breath of fresh air" from all the "jiggy-ness" on an entire album. These artist/labels know that Primo appeals to the headz, those part of the essence of hip hop. so most of the time, they lead the ablum with a single done by PRIMO.
"It's Been A Long Time"- Rakim
"Nas Is Like"-Nas
IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT!!!
"N TOGETHER NOW"- Limp Bizkit
"When I'm On the Mic"- Rakim
I mean think about it, if PRIMO is so simple in his production, then why hasn't anyone 'mastered' it? Look at Timbaland; he was so complex when he came out: Many R&B producers today are playing him like a little bitch, copied his same style and went platinum off of it. NO ONE can say that about Primo.
The man is creative. So what, he does have the "same" pattern, the "same" kicks and snares, the "same" scratch patterns....BUT the innovation comes in with the samples he chops to death, copies, pastes', etc. Primo doesn't produce "DRUM & BASS", so don't look for any wild drum patterns and changes.
Think about it, music is basically a 4/4 count. Kicks and snares are the basics for all music; the foundation. The diffrence is is what you 'fill-in' with. Everybody on this board probably has and still do use the same type of kick/snare pattern that Primo uses...but that says a lot because I don't see him on here chating about production like we are.
Things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!
IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT.
Primo still keeps me in awe. But have you ever noticed, that he produces for kids that got "skillz" on the mic. A producer, I feel, only needs to be complex in their production: changes, drops, fills, etc...only if the MC isn't all that. Now Guru, though he's not like really exciting to listen to, it works because they started it together. Group Home took me a minute to get used to, but SUPA STAR was the shit. I don't think you would hear Juvinile or Trick Daddy or somebody like that on a Primo track. Only MC's that brings a little something to the table would sound right on a Primo joint.
used to write graffiti with him. been knowin him since 94. I suggested that he gets 1200's. He got those belt drive lab tech shits first. He's doin his thang now.
You know him from where?
where you know dj SPAIR from?
motivator DJ's, pac 10
Hmm... valid points made on both sides of this coin...
I am a big Primo fan... but sometimes I do wish he would take more time with his tracks... add more sounds, drum fills, changes, etc... but honestly he doesnt need to... and not every track needs to be an instrumental composition... but it would just be interesting to see the results if he did take that approach...
I say we make Primo do an instrumental album (and i dont mean just an instrumental album of current Primo produced stuff)... i mean an entire LP of musical compositions from mr. primo himself... now that would be ILL...
Cryptic - AF
I would never attempt to pull his diggin card. My boy DJ SPAIR has all this old school weird records, and loves to point out what PRIMO flipped. I'm not a digger at all, but I can respect that.
Wow, you really pulled primo's card again. He never ever uses crazy synths or old scary violins. Man, your opinions are yours but the one person who's digging card you will never be able to pull is primo's.
Whatever you think you have found that is so amazing and 'un-primo'... rest assured thta he has probably touched it and laughed at it. Funny thing is, alot of the stuff that he has touched... he doesn't stirpe them down. He always leaves a loop or two for someone else to rock.
So like I was saying, your opinions on his music are your opinions and valid, but trying to pull his card as far as diggin is a 'mission impossible'.
I sample old synth music. Like Tangerine Dream, Vangelis, electronic music etc. And some classical (usually the gothic choir shit, or the crazy violin shit that's usually in scary movies). I really do like soul, jazz, and funk (which I also don't sample right now). But so many people sample that, so i decided to sample other stuff. Just to be different.